PONCHAUD François
Pseudonym: TCW-536
Cases: Case 002/01
Category: Witness
Role and background
Francois Ponchaud, a French national and Catholic priest, resided in Cambodia from 1965,
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and left temporarily on 7 May 1975.
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His book, ‘Cambodia: Year Zero’ (1977), was based on the interviews he conducted with Khmer refugees in Thailand and France in 1975 and 1976.
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In Case 002/01, Ponchaud testified on the historical background, CPK leadership, the revolutionary plan, CPK policies, movement of population (Phases I and II), evacuation from the French Embassy in April/May 1975, and geopolitics.
Historical background
Ponchaud testified about the 1970 American and South Vietnamese invasion of Cambodia.
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People turned to the Khmer Rouge for protection and support
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after Americans dropped 1 million tons of bombs of Agent Orange on the rubber plantations,
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and after Lon Nol soldiers executed 2,000 Vietnamese civilians.
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The 1973 American bombing of Cambodia
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killed 40,000 people, and forced around 3 million people to seek refuge in Phnom Penh.
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After that, the Khmer Rouge became cruel.
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Between 1973 and 1975 life was miserable: there was no economy,
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not enough food,
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and the Khmer Rouge fired rockets at Phnom Penh daily.
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The Trial Chamber in Case 002/01 relied on Ponchaud’s testimony in finding that Khmer Rouge torched captured villages and executed village chiefs,
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and that people were traumatized by the 1973 US bombings.
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CPK leadership
Ponchaud testified that Pol Pot was Saloth Sar (Brother Number One).
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Brother Number Two was Nuon Chea.
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The upper echelon was Pot Pol, Hem (Khieu Samphan), Vorn Vet and Van (Ieng Sary).
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He met Chea, but did not have any relationship with Samphan.
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Before 1975, Samphan was the head of the Ministry of Commerce
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and was considered “Mr. Clean”, because he did not take bribes and was the youths’ idol.
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The revolutionary plan
According to Ponchaud, there were several revolutions. In 1975, there was a national revolution, when the Khmer Rouge aimed to destroy all traitors (those who worked for the Americans or the Lon Nol regime).
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In 1976, there was a democratic revolution, where the Khmer Rouge forced people of all classes to become farmers,
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i.e., pure people without private property who only cared about the interests of the nation.
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In 1977, there was a revolution to create the New People and to build dykes and canals and change the way of life.
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Cadres were reshuffled all across Cambodia and many people in the ranks of the Khmer Rouge were killed.
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People were mistreated and made to work too hard, “like animals”.
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The Khmer Rouge were quite ignorant and did not know much about city life.
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They also followed the regime’s 12 commandments.
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According to Ponchaud, the regime erred in giving the power to unprepared or incompetent low-ranking cadres too quickly; it was the low-ranking cadres who killed.
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Ponchaud considered cooperative chiefs who sent people to be executed as the most responsible.
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CPK policies
According to Ponchaud, there was no religious persecution of the Christians in Cambodia.
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Similarly, the Cham and Vietnamese were not mistreated on religious grounds, but because they did not follow the Khmer Rouge.
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In late 1975, the upper echelon repatriated Vietnamese immigrants.
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In 1978, when the Cambodia and Vietnam war escalated, the Khmer Rouge began persecuting the Cham Muslim (the “Khmer Islam”), because they suspected them of supporting the Vietnamese.
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They also began killing those Vietnamese that still resided in Cambodia.
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Evacuation from the French Embassy
Some 500 foreigners (including Americans and the head of the American Central Intelligence Agency, South Vietnamese, and Laotian citizens) and 500 Cambodians took refuge at the French Embassy in April 1975.
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In early May 1975, 500 Pakistanis arrived.
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There was no other embassy where foreigners could take refuge.
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The Khmer Rouge took care of the foreigners at the French Embassy.
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Through Comrade Nhiem, who was the low-ranking head of the Northern sector of Phnom Penh,
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they provided the Embassy with water and food.
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On 19 April 1975, Khmer Rouge requested those among the seven “super traitors” who were hiding at the Embassy to be extradited.
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Ponchaud heard only that those found were forced to leave, and that Sirik Matak left in a very dignified way.
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There were no negotiations and no asylum requests.
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On 20 April 1975, the Khmer Rouge called the Cambodians hiding at the French Embassy “to go and rebuild the nation with their fellow compatriots”.
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Only Cambodian women who were married to French men could remain at the Embassy.
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All Cambodians, including United Front for the Liberation of Oppressed Races (FULRO) members, walked from the Embassy to the Lambert Stadium,
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where they were separated into military and civilians; the former were executed.
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On 30 April 1975, trucks took the first group of foreigners from the French Embassy to the Cambodian-Thai border,
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including the 500 Pakistanis.
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Ponchaud left with the second group of evacuees on 7 May 1975,
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giving the keys to the Embassy to Comrade Nhiem.
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On the way to the Thai border, Ponchaud did not see anyone and had the impression he was leaving a ghost country.
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Movement of population: Phase II (1975-1976)
Between 1975 and 1976, the DK regime evacuated the population for the second time.
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People were treated barbarically – they were not allowed to leave packed trains, nor given food or water, nor did they have a place to defecate or urinate; there were many casualties.
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Refugees on the Cambodia-Thai border
The first refugees to leave Cambodia were city-dwellers,
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including military officers, followed by the Chinese, and, in 1976, teachers and monks.
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Later on, peasants also started fleeing Cambodia.
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There were about 50,000 to 80,000 refugees,
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in around 20 to 25 refugee camps along the Cambodia-Thai border.
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Many refugees who crossed the border were executed by Thai officials;
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some were recruited as soldiers.
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Video 11
Video 12
Videos
| Date | Written record of proceedings | Transcript number |
|---|---|---|
| 09/04/2013 | E1/178 | E1/178.1 |
| 10/04/2013 | E1/179 | E1/179.1 |
| 11/04/2013 | E1/180 | E1/180.1 |
| Document title Khmer | Document title English | Document title French | Document D number | Document E3 number |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| កំណត់ហេតុនៃការស្ដាប់ចម្លើយសាក្សី Francois Ponchaud | Written Record of Interview of witness Francois Ponchaud by CIJ | Procès-verbal de l’audition du témoin François Ponchaud par la CIJ | D133 | E3/370 |